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acroyearAs I wrote elsewhere, I have no problem with the family since they obviously are disciplined and able to handle it (as far as public perceptions go). It is not and should never be the governments place to interfere with family size, except through education in demostrating the problems of overpopulation and having that reach the point where smaller familes become the norm by acceptance of reason rather than domination of an oppressive government. This has generally already been happening in this country, where most of our population increase in the last 20 years has been from immigration and longer lifespans, not births which have generally gone down.
I DO have a problem with the media for glorifying this family, however. The view as the Discovery show and Today Show coverage presents it can make it easily seem like multiple kids == panacea for family peace, rather than really showing the level of discipline on the kids and more importantly, self-discipline of the mother, as the reason that family is a success.
The issue is what is perceived as self-discipline. The critics you describe here see "having a million kids" as being undisciplined, because mostlarge families we see are like that, especially in urban areas. I see her as extremely self-disciplined in the way she manages them, almost like an office manager with one-on-ones and tasks lists and things like that so that no kid feels the "middle child(ren) is ignored" aspect that we know happens in families half that size elsewhere.
I also don't like the blanket "thanks to our faith" aspect of some of the promotional materials - yes, her discipline is a doctrine in that particular evangelical church, descendant from classic 17th century Calvanism, but the fact that she MAKES it a success by working at it may be missing - they may make it seem (as some have described it) as "have faith and it will all work", but really it is "I'm going to work at it because I have faith", the original Protestant work ethic that's actually lost in much of the country that still thinks they have it.
Even as much as I hate 17th century religious philosophy (being a child of the Enlightenment, I've discovered), I do believe that the modern (since the 1920s) evangelical movement has allowed the catch-phrases of their origins take over the original dogma and doctrine that had created those churches in the first place, and much of our current problems with that side of our political spectrum stem from that. Sheep have led sheep for so long that the thinkers who knew how those philosophies led to REAL personal and community success are long gone, and the gap is filled instead by, as the Doctor once described, "changing the facts to fit the theory".
This family is an exception to that, but they are few and far between.
I DO have a problem with the media for glorifying this family, however. The view as the Discovery show and Today Show coverage presents it can make it easily seem like multiple kids == panacea for family peace, rather than really showing the level of discipline on the kids and more importantly, self-discipline of the mother, as the reason that family is a success.
The issue is what is perceived as self-discipline. The critics you describe here see "having a million kids" as being undisciplined, because mostlarge families we see are like that, especially in urban areas. I see her as extremely self-disciplined in the way she manages them, almost like an office manager with one-on-ones and tasks lists and things like that so that no kid feels the "middle child(ren) is ignored" aspect that we know happens in families half that size elsewhere.
I also don't like the blanket "thanks to our faith" aspect of some of the promotional materials - yes, her discipline is a doctrine in that particular evangelical church, descendant from classic 17th century Calvanism, but the fact that she MAKES it a success by working at it may be missing - they may make it seem (as some have described it) as "have faith and it will all work", but really it is "I'm going to work at it because I have faith", the original Protestant work ethic that's actually lost in much of the country that still thinks they have it.
Even as much as I hate 17th century religious philosophy (being a child of the Enlightenment, I've discovered), I do believe that the modern (since the 1920s) evangelical movement has allowed the catch-phrases of their origins take over the original dogma and doctrine that had created those churches in the first place, and much of our current problems with that side of our political spectrum stem from that. Sheep have led sheep for so long that the thinkers who knew how those philosophies led to REAL personal and community success are long gone, and the gap is filled instead by, as the Doctor once described, "changing the facts to fit the theory".
This family is an exception to that, but they are few and far between.
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no subject
Date: 2008-05-12 09:22 pm (UTC)But I agree with ladyaelfwyn - I don't think they need to have their own TV show or paid trips to Disney - which I'm surprised they went to because a lot of fundies boycot them because of their gay friendly policies.
The program showed the Duggars meeting with another family with 14 kids. They too were painted as happy, well-adjusted kids just like any other American family - which we know they aren't.
Supposedly they are debt free - which I take to mean that their house is paid off as well as their cars. The other little factoid is that they eat on a budget of $2000/month. I'd like to see how they do it as well as pay off all their other bills.
I'd also like to see real interviews with the kids and not just "Oh I love my big family because there's always someone around." Please. What teen-ager doesn't want his or her own room and a little space.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-12 10:11 pm (UTC)They "rely on donations from their community and their church," which means that someone else is footing the bills ... and Discovery Channel paid for the house.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-12 10:16 pm (UTC)The show John (or Jack, I can't remember) and Kate +8 bothers me even more. At least they seem a lot more realistic and aren't fundies.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 02:49 pm (UTC)1. Taking donations should not be a crime. As for whether or not they can support their children, Mr. Dugger has been a statesmen and is a successful real estate agent. TLC paid for some of the improvements to their new home (not the entire thing) to make their own show look better and if they want to do that, why should the Duggers say no?
2. I am also pro-choice and don't believe in enormous families either. However this family has worked hard and has a large support network. I have relied on friends and family before and may do so again. This family has successfully raised a multitude of children and found ways to fund it- I give them props. If it is within their decisions based on their religion, fine as long as they are not influencing my choices.
3. I disagree with their religious choices. Welcome to America. My government may not dictate what religion I follow or how many children I have and should stay away from my womb. If I can support 18 kids, great, if not then I hope I can be smart enough to stop kids.
As for Jon & Kate +8 - they had 6 at one time. I applaud them for finding a way to fund their family and if going into show business allows them to provide for their family then who am I to complain?
If you don't care for the shows - don't watch them.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-13 04:12 pm (UTC)I don't. I believe in voting with my feet.