it's been pointed out by others, but...

[acroyear]

Mitt Romney really needs to read the f'in' Constitution he claims to want to uphold.

Romney: We need to have a person of faith lead the country.

The Constitution: No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

and later: ...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

So Romney, take your lack of education, your naked bigotry, and your willingness to deflect your own minority status by picking on an even smaller (and more hated) minority, AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS.

God I'm getting pissed at the Right Wing today...

Comments

[cyberkender.livejournal.com]

I know it's not what Romney meant, but his statement, in and of itself, is not automatically offensive to me. Faith is not religion. A true atheist has faith that there is no deity. An evolutionist has faith in science. Faith is fine. It's religion that messes things up. IMHO.

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

in the former, you will get a LOT of argument from atheists.

as for evolution and science, you mistake faith for trust.

science-supporters don't have faith that the scientific method "works". they know it doesn't.

they just trust, based entirely on analysis and experience that it is the best system we have for finding out how things work and why things are within a reasonable (and measurable) degree of certainty, for improving upon that knowledge and certainty over time, and for recognizing the limitations of our demonstrably imperfect selves. It is *entirely* based on evidence, and evidence breeds trust. Faith is the antithesis, the belief that comes not from objective observation.

I *trust* the scientific process. I have no "faith" in it.

[cyberkender.livejournal.com]

Since trust, faith, and belief are synonymous, I think we have a disagreement more on definition than otherwise. I have no doubts that Romney meant 'faith' as in:
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
But it is also:
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.

I agree, it's not faith in the scientific method, but the scientific method is not everything about science. It's just a standardized way to present one's testing methods and hypotheses.

I'm not trying to get under your skin, Joe. I was twisting Romney's meaning in such a way as to agree with him and totally piss him off, were it presented publicly to him.

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

I'm just disagreeing across the board here.

trust, faith, and belief are not synonymous at all. in fact, the meanings of those is at the heart of the argument. in the context of the comment and in the context of the philosophical debates, those are three *extremely* different words, distinct for a clear reason.

Romney meant faith EXACTLY as i worded it. it was an intentional attack on atheists, a reflection of the modern polls that have come out stating that people distrust atheists more than homosexuals. context is key, and the context of any politician's speech is what has been in the headlines recently.

when someone says "of faith", they mean of religious belief, period.

the "of" is CRITICAL in the expression. "of the same faith" is not "of faith" and never has been.

the scientific method is a lot more than just the test. its the process not only of research, determining the test, and conducting it. its also the process of peer review, publication, and the ability of others to duplicate your results. that much fuller version of the scientific method is why science "works" - its the self-correcting nature of science that "faith" completely lacks and actively deters.

it wouldn't get under his skin. he can't debate for shit in any instance or he wouldn't have opened up this hornets nest that isn't merely because the media doesn't think "slagging atheists" is a problem.

[cyberkender.livejournal.com]

I'm just disagreeing across the board here.

Ok, I accept that and I am not trying to persuade you to change either.

>trust, faith, and belief are not synonymous at all. in fact, the >meanings of those is at the heart of the argument.

Dictionary.com and Thesaurus.com disagree with you on definition.

Romney meant faith EXACTLY as i worded it. it was an intentional attack on atheists, a reflection of the modern polls that have come out stating that people distrust atheists more than homosexuals. context is key, and the context of any politician's speech is what has been in the headlines recently.

And I was agreeing with you the entire time.

in the context of the comment and in the context of the philosophical debates, those are three *extremely* different words, distinct for a clear reason.

Exactly. I *specifically* took his words out of his context to use them in my own.

when someone says "of faith", they mean of religious belief, period.

That is a sweeping generalization. I am sure you always mean it that way, but your statement is applying context to everyone else in the world. Would that not be very similar to the sort of thing the Religious Right tries to do to the world? I'll speak for myself, thanks.

the "of" is CRITICAL in the expression. "of the same faith" is not "of faith" and never has been.

You are arguing against the quoted dictionary definition here, and not my words.


I should have been more clear in my last sentence: I should have said "in such a way as to appear to agree with him" rather than just"in such a way as to agree with him."

[thatwasjen]

Speaking as a linguist, not a scientist, I concur that trust, faith, and belief are not synonymous. Each has a separate connotation -- faith in particular relates almost entirely to religious matters, whereas trust is something that can be proven, won, earned, and/or broken.

[greendalek.livejournal.com]

This guy will be but a mere memory of a footnote very soon. I just learned that he joined the NRA only this past August, not because he has any particular love for the Second Amendment (in fact he seems to hate it as much as he hates the First), but because he thought it might improve his standing with The Base.

This guy's worthy only of laughter. Preferably the derisive kind.