the end of any illusion that Israel is a secular state?

[acroyear]

Op-Ed Contributor - The Diaspora Need Not Apply - NYTimes.com:

If this bill passes, future historians will inevitably wonder why, at a critical moment in its history, Israel chose to tell 85 percent of the Jewish diaspora that their rabbis weren’t rabbis and their religious practices were a sham, the conversions of their parents and spouses were invalid, their marriages weren’t legal under Jewish law, and their progeny were a tribe of bastards unfit to marry other Jews.

Why, they will wonder, as Iran raced to build a nuclear bomb to wipe the Jewish state off the map, did the custodians of the 2,000-year-old national dream of the Jewish people choose such a perverse definition of Jewish peoplehood, seemingly calculated to alienate supporters outside its own borders?

And, they will also wonder, what of the quiescence of diaspora Jewry? Many American Jews understandably see Israel as under siege and have not wanted to make things worse; they imagined that internal politicking over conversions and marriages was ephemeral, and would change. But the conversion bill is a sign that this silence was a mistake, for it has been interpreted by Israeli politicians as a green light to throw basic questions of Jewish identity into the pot of coalition politics.

The redemptive history of the Jewish people since the Holocaust has rested on the twin pillars of a strong Israel and a strong diaspora, which have spoken to each other politically and culturally, and whose successes have mutually reinforced the confidence and capacities of the other. Neither the Jewish diaspora nor Israel can afford a split between the two communities — a dystopian possibility that, if this bill passes, could materialize frightfully soon.

Comments

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

If such a bill is being considered in any lawmaking body, there is no secular state present, by definition.

The implications of this... are interesting. And I'm saying "interesting" because I don't want to go down the "horrifying" path at this time of the night.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Israel...has never quite been clear on whether it's a secular or religious state. (To itself or anybody else.) It doesn't help that "Jewish" isn't a purely religious characterization.

I hadn't heard about this...but it's kind of funny, in a very black sense.

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

So I shouldn't even get into this, technically, because it's late and I am an external observer and my reaction, when I try to put on (say) your shoes, is a textbook example of unfunnybusiness' "what is this i don't even" tag. I just wonder if I am very off the mark by feeling like that.

(Also, I didn't realize you knew acroread70.)

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, it's not "what is this I don't even" for me because it's...not a new argument. I remember seeing a political cartoon when I was a kid--a faceless figure dressed in all black, labeled "Hamas" (at least, I think it was "Hamas") holding a bomb, and saying, "Reform, Conservative, Orthodox...doesn't matter to me."

It's...messy.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Oh--and I lived in DC for two years, remember. Met Joe through jsbowden.

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

and faireraven

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Basically what's happening is that (as has been the case for a long while) Labour and Likud each have about 45% of the Knesset, leaving them beholden to whichever splinter parties are willing to join with them in coalition. These splinter parties tend to be the strict religiously motivated, which has made for a lot of control from a small group.

The article Joe links to is a little bit old. Per some of the posts over on weirdjews, Netanyahu announced on Sunday that he would oppose.


(Also complicating matters: regardless of where you are, the Orthodox only recognize their own conversions, and the Conservative don't even always recognize Reform. Plus the Reform recognize paternal line and nobody else does. So if you convert Reform and your kid (born after) gets more observant and wants to marry in a Conservative or Orthodox service he may well find himself having to convert. This whole "the Orthodox call the shots" thing isn't at all new. )

Re secular state, being Jewish gets you in, but that's much more on the tribe than religion side. Thing is, though, the Jewish nature of the state makes a difference much the same way that the Christian roots here do. Our weekend is Saturday - Sunday; theirs is Friday-Saturday. And much like here it's hard to find a bus on Sunday (plus the blue laws influencing what was sold on Sundays), back when I was there the buses didn't run on Saturday, and Saturday night was a huge party time.


I haven't gone through these links, but I searched 'rotem conversion bill jerusalem post' - I know there's been a bunch of coverage.

Jpost: Israelis worried by this bill, too is probably worth a read.