(no subject)

[acroyear]

Anyone who was "self-taught" to do what they do was therefore taught to do what they do by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

Comments

[blueeowyn.livejournal.com]

Hmm, self-taught can mean so many different things. It can lead to someone who has no clue about what is really going on. It can lead to someone who does XYZ because they were never told you couldn't do it.

I tend to think that there are some advantages to self-taught as well as some disadvantages. It depends on the teacher and the teachee as to whether "self-taught" is better than "taught".

I suspect that your Dear Wife(tm) could teach herself some of the instruements using manuals, fingering charts and her own knowledge of music. I further suspect that she would be better than some professionals I have had the displeasure to listen to.∆

[faireraven.livejournal.com]

Um, hon? I play nine different instruments (with varying levels of skill, ranging from "I can play three different scales" to "hot damn!"). *blush*

Yeah, fingering charts go a long way... ;)

However, without an original teacher to teach me the fundamentals, I don't know how far I would have gotten... Had violin lessons from the time I was five until I was 17. Trumpet lessons from fourth grade through 12th. Piano lessons for a year in there. Vocals throughout school. The rest were picked up on my own. But without the fundamentals that were taught to begin with, things might have been very different.

(violin, trumpet, piano, viola, mandolin, harp, ocarina, saxophone, harmonica, assorted percussion...)

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm mostly self-taught on guitar. I did have a music class (recorder, xylophone, basic notation) in 7th grade, and a teach-yourself-guitar book in 12th grade when I first got my hands on a guitar, and a college roommate who showed me a bunch of stuff after I'd gotten atarted, so I'm not entirely self-taught, but still ...

Thing is, at this point I can probably pick up pretty much anything with strings and frets that doesn't need a bow, and sound like I've got a clue. And probably most things without frets. And I'm itching to learn to use a bow as well. Mostly self-taught (with help), but I've been doing lute-family instruments for a loooong time now.

BUT: The goddamned baritone horn is kicking my ass. I'm a beginner on it, and I'm flailing. If I "self-teach" myself a fretted stringed instrument, I'm building on prior knowledge, as you described. Trying to play the baritone or the trombone, all I do is prove your point about needing a grounding in the fundamentals first. (I'm probably going to have to hit Gherhardt up for lessons at some point.)

Some skills / some students, you can pick up the fundamentals from scratch yourself. Other skills you can't; other students can't. I've toyed with single-reeds just enough to convince myself that I could teach myself clarinet or saxophone and eventually be pretty good at it (though I'd get there faster with some pointers, I'm sure). On the other hand, I'm having enough trouble with the brass to suspect that I'll never be really good at it without help.

For someone else, it might work out the other way 'round.

[faireraven.livejournal.com]

I'll tell you now, you'll need help with the bow. Something I was told a long time ago... Violin is very difficult to make any noise that sounds decent come out of it, so it takes a LONG time to ramp up... But once you sound good the first time, going anywhere from there is relatively easy...

I can likely help you with either the bow or the brass, if I ever get some time one of these days... Brass is all in the amachure (sp). In other words, it's all in how you purse your lips. Tell you what, if we ever manage to get the time, I'll help you with a bow or the brass, and you show me how to get a decent pick hand (I can play mandolin perfectly fine with the left hand, the right hand gives me issues...). :)

I got lessons on strings/bow, high brass, some winds, and some keyboard. At this point, I could at least pick a few scales and "lightly row" out of almost any instrument. But the fundamentals are there. At this point, it's knowing how to get "noise" out of an instrument, and then practicing until it comes naturally. Some, I'm better than others (I can get "noise" out of a sax. That, and about three scales. On the other hand, I had viola going pretty well in less than a week).

Self-taught doesn't have to mean COMPLETELY self-taught. It just means that the majority of your education didn't come from an instructor. But all of us are building on someone else's knowledge. Few of us can pick up something from scratch without someone else's assistance, even if it's very small assistance.

Here's a small bit of assistance for your baritone: Take the mouthpiece and play with it. Forget the rest of the horn, just take the mouthpiece, walk into a room that you won't disturb anyone, and make noise on it. Use it as a duck call. Experiment with the duck call. Make it high, make it low. Figure out what about that duck call changes with how you purse your lips. Loosen your lips up until it sounds like flatulence coming out of the mouthpiece (for those who think I'm kidding, I'm not). Tighten up until you can get a high pitched duck squeal out of it. Play "taps". Play "revillrie". Do that for at least ten minutes a day. Until you get the amaschure (dammit, I need to remember how to spell that, pronounced ah-meh-shure) built up, you will sound like garbage, and it will continue to kick your ass. Once you figure out that basic key, the rest will be easy.

One more tip: take a pencil, place it above your upper lip, and purse your lips until you can hold the pencil between your upper lip and your nose without using your hands. hold it there for a few minutes. Trust me, it helps. ;)

This "how to learn a brass instrument in ten easy lessons" moment brought to you by faireraven. *grin*

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

"I'll tell you now, you'll need help with the bow." This doesn't surprise me. I've already got enough clue not to assume that my being able to play a double-bass pizzicato will mean I can automatically play it arco. (OTOH, the one really magical thing about bowed psalteries is that a novice gets a good tone the very first time he or she picks one up, unlike pretty much every other bowed instrument, as far as I can tell. Not that that's relevant here, but I felt like mentioning it.)

"I can likely help you with either the bow or the brass, if I ever get some time one of these days..." I was thinking of hitting up Gherhardt for help with the brass 'cause he's local, but he's even more busy than you, so I may
wind up taking you up on that offer.

"and you show me how to get a decent pick hand" Okay, but with the caveat that I don't usually use a pick myself (I use my fingernail). I'm pretty sure I can help anyhow, since I've taught guitar students to use a pick.

I've got the basic embouchure for the brass (yeah, that's how it's spelled), so I can get a tone out of the baritone, but my tone isn't great and I'm not used to thinking entirely in harmonic overtone series (despite being able to play a couple of tunes entirely on harmonics on the guitar). Obviously I still need help getting the embouchure exactly right, but I'm a lot closer there than I am with the shakuhachi.

I was keeping a mouthpiece next to my computer to practice with as you described, but I put it away for some reason I've since forgotten. I'll pull it out again.