a "Liberal Media" review of the upcoming Attorney General

[acroyear]

Naturally, its not pretty (and yes, Rob, its biased). However, it was written in May of this year, LONG before the events of the last 2 days were even a pipe-dream in anybody's mind. This is not "bash him now that he's the big guy" writing.

Anyways, the perspective (an editorial viewpoint, not an necessarilly an objective one) is at the St. Petersberg Times, a newspaper in Florida.

No, I don't like the guy. But then again, there hasn't been an attorney general worth liking from ANY administration since I've been alive. Reno's only good point was that she was willing to (rightfully) challenge Microsoft. And won.

not that Microsoft would have noticed or anything...

Scott Bateman has written a cartoon on Gonzales already.

---

My viewpoint? Well, take this set of excerpts from the current Reuters story on the press conference:

"His sharp intellect and sound judgment have helped shaped our policies in the war on terror, policies designed to protect the security of all Americans while protecting the rights of all Americans," Bush said in announcing Gonzales' nomination during a ceremony in the White House Roosevelt Room.

Gonzales said if confirmed he would pursue policies aimed at "justice for every American."

"On this principle, there can be no compromise," he said.

so, we're "protecting the rights of all Americans" by basically declaring that nobody who isn't American has any rights?

"Sound Judgement" is making us the most hated country of the 21st century(so far) for our hypocracy when it comes to human rights violations?

And to quibble over the precise wording of the Geneva Conventions to come up with some legal loophole by which we can torture alledged terrorists because they aren't "prisoners of war" (in spite of the fact that most were captured during combat operations against u.s. military forces, not in the process of carrying out or planning terrorist activities) digusts me thoroughly. The SPIRIT of the conventions is that prisoners have rights and we shouldn't be utter assholes to them.

Torture is WRONG. Period. Trying to justify it (before or after) by saying that the letter of the law means rules we agreed to (and have enforced for over 100 years) suddenly don't really apply to US in such-n-such situation, is morally corrupt. It is to my mind, the ultimate in corruption.

I'm sorry to remind this jerk, but the Constitution protects the rights of ALL PERSONS, not just Americans. Anybody in Law Enforcement (which the A.G. position is) who forgets that is due for a civil rights class action lawsuit of the worst kind...

as for any who intentionally, willfully ignore that...?

we should not fight terrorists by becoming terrorists (especially those that are only alledged to have ties to terrorists). we're supposed to be better than this by now...

People, write your Senators, current and/or incoming. Help them realize that any man who would justify torture is not somebody who should be in the highest ranking position of American Law Enforcement. Remind them of their responsibilities to their constituents and their country, and those responsibilities don't include letting the President get away with whatever the hell he wants.

(hint: remind them that torture is not a "moral value" we should be professing to believe in)

Comments

[lokifrost.livejournal.com]

I agree to everything 100% of what you wrote with one small exception:

"Torture is WRONG. Period. Trying to justify it (before or after) by saying that the letter of the law means rules we agreed to (and have enforced for over 100 years) suddenly don't really apply to US in such-n-such situation, is morally corrupt. It is to my mind, the ultimate in corruption".


Sometimes the ends justify the means, Joe. (IMO)

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

1) NEVER. there HAS to be a line that a civilized society MUST establish that they won't cross, regardless of what's going on or who's doing what to us.

2) the hypocracy of what we are doing to the world IS WHY THERE ARE TERRORISTS WHO HATE US IN THE FIRST PLACE.

saying "well, *I* wouldn't torture anybody...but that guy over there can do it and i'll just turn a blind eye" absolutely disgusts me.

as the people of a democratic society we MUST let our leaders know they should not be allowed to do to the rest of the world that which they can not legally nor morally do to us. There has to be a check on the abuse of others by those in power, and just because "Americans" (or our "allies") aren't the ones being abused in NO WAY JUSTIFIES IT.

the line between civilization and barbarity HAS to be drawn, and it HAS been drawn, by the agreement of the vast majority of the nations of the world. Now that it has been drawn (for over 60 years), we should not cross it, no matter what happens.

Torture is wrong, always has been, always will be. To tolerate it within an enlightened society is corrupt. To tolerate it while proclaiming to have supported the people perpetrating it because of their "moral values" is utterly corrupt.

no wonder the world fucking hates us.

[lokifrost.livejournal.com]

As someone who was in the armed services, I have seen first hand the effects of a government not willing to use everything in it's arsenal to get information which could (and would) have staved off horrible things happening to innocent people.

Also, as someone who not only has lost a good many friends and brothers in Afghanistan and Iraq, family and friends in the towers: due to terrorism-- and also myself being inside of the Pentagon when one of our policies failed...I hope you accept that when I say that some ends can justify some means. If we acted in the early 90's, when we had in custody, several operatives which are (at least) partially responsible for this shite the last four years, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could have saved some people who don't have shite to do with policy or politics.

Women and children cross the line, Joe. I would put my own mother under a potato peeler if there was a chance to take back what has happened--or to prevent another 9/11. I have been accused of being extreme sometimes...but as we used to say:

God forgives: Victims cannot, and (ex) Rangers don't.

I apologize if I sound like some rabid right winger (I am NOT), but I have lived in both worlds my friend. I will agree to disagree with you on this point.

oh, and for that matter...

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

WHAT ENDS?

what ends could we possibly achieve by proving to the terrorist enemy and the nations of the world that still does torture that we can do it just as bad (or worse) than they can.

Torture records should not be something to brag about, or to exacercerbate in a human rights violation arms race.

all torture and abuse and hypocritical civil-rights violations are going to breed is even more hatred for us, and more terrorism.

and we've known that for centuries...

[blueeowyn.livejournal.com]

I agree with Joe. Torture is Wrong. Torture gains nothing but dehumanizing people (both the torturer and the tortured). I know that some people will say "that if you torture them, they will tell us what we need to know" (sort of like if you torture the data enough it will confess). However, when you study the outputs of the torture interrogations, you learn that what tends to happen is that the victim says whatever will make the torturer stop doing what is being done. If someone wants proof that XYZ is going on, you can probably get someone to 'confess' it. Even if the person knows that it isn't true. In Taming of the Shrew, the husband torture's his wife in order to get her to capitulate to his whims (it is the sun, it is the sun, no it isn't the sun etc.). If the torturing people have an agenda/idea, they will find it. That is why true investegators have double-blind studies in many situations.

If the US tortures people to get information, what makes us better than beasts? If we torture people for retribution, what separates us from Saddam and those that are now called terrorists. It isn't showing that we are as big and strong as they are, it is lowering ourselves to their level.

As Tarma says in the Vows and Honor books, you kill evil, quickly, cleanly and efficiently. If you do more, you let yourself become what it is.h

look at our own history, not just fiction

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

consider the rediculousness of the confessions achieved during the Witch trials from 1300 to 1700, including those that occurred on american soil in Salem. confession after confession, finger-pointing after finger-pointing, ALL of it lies achieved through the abuse of power of one human over another.

we stopped it in the West decades ago (particularly with the demise of the Nazis, Stalin, and McCarthyism (psychological torture and abuse, using the public perception as the key instrument)). to go back on that progress and treat ANY person as being less than human, less than deserving the rights that we ourselves have, is immoral.