a better way?

[acroyear]

Uncertain Principles: The Football Positioning System:

It's NFL playoff time, which means that sports fans will be treated to the sight of the most high-stakes farce in sports, namely the ritual of "bringing out the chains" to determine whether a team has gained enough yards for a first down. We've all seen this: the play is whistled dead, a referee un-stacks the pile of players, picks up the ball, and puts it down more or less where the player was stopped. Then he tosses the ball into the middle of the field, to a second referee, who tries to replicate the spot closer to the center of the field. Then a guy on the sideline carrying a big stick (connected by a ten-yard chain to another stick held by another guy) tries to put the end of the stick at the same position as the ball.

Three plays later, the spotting procedure is repeated, and then the sticks are bought out to the center of the field, the chain is stretched taut, and they measure the position of the ball to the nearest millimeter. Because, of course, there's absolutely no error in placing the sticks.

The whole ritual is preposterous, and anybody with the slightest scientific inclination has to wonder: "Isn't there a better way of doing this?" So, what would be required to do a better job of this?

The premise has a point - just as computers and video (i.e., technology) has improved the accuracy of the game (if not the game itself) from a penalty standpoint, shouldn't technology also be used as this otherwise fraught-with-error-sources means of first-down-ness?

Comments

[thatliardiego.livejournal.com]

Jeez, why not have perfectly symmetrical stadia in baseball, too?

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

statistics. if football could have 10 times as many games per team, it could be as inconsistent as it wants to be...

[dashrippington.livejournal.com]

Well when it comes right down to it... as the plays in the past are being overturned by the impressiveness of Video footage... I think it would be quite easy to put some type of GPS device in the ball itself. That way, there would be no doubts whatsoever... if the player made the first down or not... and would also serve as a definitive answer to whether a the ball broke the plane of the end zone for a touch down.

[pharmtoxgirl.livejournal.com]

Might depend on where the GPS is located in the ball though. But that has merit.

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

OT1H: Is GPS precise enough -- centimeters?

OTOH: It needn't be GPS, merely S[tadium]PS -- instead of measuring signals from four satellites, measure from for fixed transmitters attached to corners of the stadium. (Or, wait ... you only need three, right? Since we don't need to measure the ball's altitude?)

[pharmtoxgirl.livejournal.com]

The chains don't bother me as much as the placement of the ball. That's just to subjective sometimes.

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

ah but the chains ARE a problem in that 2 guys have to run down the field, potentially shifting that little bit left or right, one of the two plants himself as "I'm right, dammit", and the other adjusts to stretch the chains and check the ball...but there we've now, as noted, gotten to at least *3* different people whose p.o.v. is involved - the ref that got the ball, the ref that finally placed it, and the first chain guy who planted his foot (and stick) down to say "HERE" according to his p.o.v. of the original first down line was.

If he's off by an inch after running downfield...

On the other hand, I do assume these guys don't get the big pro jobs until they can prove some degree of accuracy and consistency...but that could be a crappy assumption.

[pharmtoxgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm an INSANE football fan and I do get what you are saying. But for me, it's still the placement of the flipping ball that kills me.

[thelongshot.livejournal.com]

Actually, it amazes me how often they get the placement right, since it is supposed to be where the ball is when the player's knee touches the ground.

As for the yardsticks, I have a feeling that they also have a second set sitting on the sidelines (for where the 10 yards begin) and the guy lines up based on that. While it isn't exact, it is probably a pretty good estimation.

[pharmtoxgirl.livejournal.com]

See, I'm used to them spotting where the guys lunged to with his hands outstretched to get that first down.... Or where they somehow think he got and he never got close.

But, still love the sport, so it is what it is.

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

Isn't there a tag that clips to the chain where it crosses a multiple-of-five line, and a third guy making sure that's lined up on the stripe on the field when they run the chains out, so both ends are really positioned based on that? Or am I conflating memories from different eras, levels, and leagues?

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

I've no idea how all that works in detail. i don't watch it enough.

[blueeowyn.livejournal.com]

I thought that they had a little tag that went on the nearest yard that is a multiple of 10 (i.e. goes on the 10, 20, ...) and the tag is centered on that line.

[cyberkender.livejournal.com]

The idea is well enough, but since it's not about where the ball stops, but where the ball was when the player was 'down,' how could you measure that? Cover every square centimeter of the field with sensors, and then do the same to each player, and the ball?

Besides, half the fun of watching football is about yelling at the refs for missed calls anyway.

[klytus.livejournal.com]

A t-square-laser level. Use the T-square to make sure the laser is perpendicular to the sideline, and then the laser does the measuring.

[uncle-possum.livejournal.com]

Use Occam's razor--the simplest solution: all you need is a modern electronic version of the surveyor's theodolite--site the instrument on the end zone line--sight along it to the football (if necessary, since it's so low, also use a surveyor's target--place on the near or far edge of the football--just make a rule on where it goes). Then, next play, do it again, and calculate the difference.

It has been used for years in such "sports" as Cow Chip Throws, and works to a fraction of an inch.