why i go to small club shows

[acroyear]

like the birchmere, the 9:30, the state theater, etc...

tonight's Jethro Tull tickets at constitution hall start at $50 and go up to $80 for the floor.

i have yet to pay a club show price more than $35, with most being under $25 (including last night's Steve Hackett).

why the hell is it that the bigger the venue, the more expensive the price?  kinda goes against standard supply and demand economics, no?

needless-to-say, i'm not going.

sorry, Ian.

Comments

[bronxelf-ag001.livejournal.com]

Because overhead costs arent strict supply/demand. It costs exponentially more per head in a large venue than a small one, when one considers all the costs involved.

I'll put it a different way for you...

[scarydavedc.livejournal.com]

Why does it cost more to deploy 11 police officers in full riot gear than it does 25 police officers in standard blues?

yet a different way.

[scarydavedc.livejournal.com]

in a smaller venue if have less operating staff, less crew, less equipment, less stageing, less HVAC/electric/other operating costs. Many staff members in a smaller space will be part time, non-union, and won't require benefits.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be snarky in my last comment.

[rsteachout.livejournal.com]

In addition, DAR Constitution Hall is in D.C. which tacks on higher fees and taxes, and requires that all support personnel (security, concession workers, custodial workers, etc.) working the event be union. So the location itself also means a higher cost that is passed on to the consumer.

Re: I'll put it a different way for you...

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

no, i get your point. it scales "backwards" from the expected.

small club, moderate gig (assuming no issue like Great White's fireworks), amounts to about 5 security and 10 "support" people (ticket collecting, backstage guards) for 200-400 fans. nearing an average of, say, 30 patrons per employee (not counting food service). aside from the birchmere, the band provides their own sales vendor for merchandise (which more often than not is CDs and DVDs, not t-shirts and "swag").

constitution hall will likely run about 4-10 cops outside, 2 "support" *specifically* to protect backstage, 1 person at every emergency exit to keep people from sneaking someone in (about 12), 16 ticket collectors at the door, 8 inside the box office, one person at every entrance from the outer ring into the inner one (constitution hall has about 30) to guide people to the right area inside, 2 people to guard the stage area, and about 10 cops inside the halls at random spots, and that's just what can be seen at the time, plus the venue provides the merch salesmen (3 stands, 5 people per stand given shift rotation) all for a crowd of about 4000.

so that's 1 much-higher-paid (on average) person per 40 fans.

and that's just security, tickets, and sales.

the general scale of security, tickets, and sales per fan is about equal, but the price per employee at the larger venue goes up (as Rob just pointed out) due to taxes, local laws, and local unions, and the need for experience and equipment when it comes to the security.

--

then there's the "concessions" issue. at a large venue, they're concessions. at a small club, its food and drinks at the bar -- you don't pay them in advance as much as you tip them once you're there.

--

i'll stick to my small clubs. the shows are simply more fun, more intimate, less troubled by troublemakers, and for all that they're cheaper.

of course the question is

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

did DAR Constitution Hall require all employees be union, or did the unions require DAR Constitution Hall require all employees be union.

not all concession workers are union; some are lowly college students from georgetown, catholic, GWU, or american.

Re: I'll put it a different way for you...

[scarydavedc.livejournal.com]

I know thier box office and ushers are not union, they are not even house staff (which makes sense, since DAR does not have regular enough perfomances to warrent having a house staff). They work for a company contracted to staff events at DAR.

OOPS!

[scarydavedc.livejournal.com]

Err, I ment 100; and gee my spelling & grammer is bad today. Really shouldn't be posting while working the willcall window at work.

[caseylane.livejournal.com]

I remember years (and years) ago Jethro Tull came to Detroit and tickets cost $12. I was so in love with the show I remember turning to my brother and exclaiming that I would have been willing to pay $20 to see them, that's how good they were.

::snort::

Re: I'll put it a different way for you...

[scarydavedc.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that more space = more equipment. More stage, more rigging, more lights, more speakers, more amps, more cable...

I agree with you, there are very few large venue shows that will draw me out these days. I prefer a venue where I can not just be seeing the band but be a patron of the venue as well. Probably why I spend so much time at Warehouse Next Door, even if I have no idea who is playing.

Re: I'll put it a different way for you...

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

yeah, but my general point is that SOME of those things scale with the number of fans, others go down on average (the lighting, sound, and power requirements generally are less per fan, unless you've got a huge mass of crap like Madonna, U2, or Pink Floyd). economies of scale and all that -- you can only put so much power through so much PA before the echo effect makes it dangerous. ditto lighting -- the same lights for a 4000 seat theater like CH or Pier 6 can work with a 20,000 seat arena; the stage sizes are comparable.

really, like in all american businesses and industries, *people* are the expensive item. putting more people to a problem scales it exponentially the wrong direction compared to any other variable.

its not the lights or their power intake that are expensive; its that programming a light show to be consistent from one night to the next (something club tours don't bother to do) and able to handle a number of variations on the set list (tull have a touring repotiore of 50 songs, of which 27 are rehearsed for a tour and 22 make it into the show) is *expensive*. the guy who does that's a genius, relatively speaking, and geniuses aren't cheap. then tag in that they bring in their own lighting riggers to put it all together (again, club tours simply use the relatively primative lighting already on site) and watch the cost jump.

its not the lights themselves (those are reused too much to be expensive over time; ditto the computer and the rest of the equipment), its the people.